Welcome to Joy Lab!: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Joy Lab podcast, where we help you uncover and foster your most joyful self. Your hosts, Dr. Henry Emmons and Dr. Aimee Prasek, bring you the ideal mix of soulful and scientifically sound tools to spark your joy, even when it feels dark. When you're ready to experiment with more joy, combine this podcast with the full Joy Lab program over at JoyLab.coach
Henry: Hello, I'm Henry Emmons and welcome to Joy Lab.
Aimee: And I'm Aimee Prasek. Today we are working with our element of compassion and the fourth level of compassion noted by Dr. Gabor Maté in his five levels of compassion framework. And this level is called the Compassion of Truth. Oh, I know they're getting harder as we noted at the beginning of the series, pretty basic, and then it gets harder.
So, in this level Maté [00:01:00] notes, something we highlighted in our first episode,-- I'll link to that in show notes --where we talked about the difference between pain and suffering. So we noted that pain is inevitable in this life.
Much of it is unavoidable. Certainly, there are pains that we can avoid. We should avoid those, but avoiding all pain is just impossible. And so, Maté notes, I think this is interesting, that it's not compassionate to help someone avoid pain unless that pain is truly avoidable. Because pain is part of the human condition.
The compassion comes in helping others or ourselves come to the truth of our suffering. And the truth can hurt and the truth can set us free, right? We talk about truth a lot in these catchy phrases. There is some truth there. So this is a message that healers and thinkers across millennia have said, concurred with. Pain is [00:02:00] inevitable.
It's not the enemy. So what this level of compassion is suggesting is that we can uncover the truth, the causes of our suffering,And if we can face those truths rather than run away from them, then we can start our healing process and we can work our way out of suffering. And it kind of sounds simple when you lay it out, but this is hard stuff, obviously.
We have built up many layers of armor and defenses to avoid a truth that really hurts. And I like what Maté notes about this when he talks about this process, noting that sometimes we avoid healing. We avoid the truth because it reminds us of the original pain. The loss, the ache, that we have run away from and that has amplified our suffering.
But the truth is the truth, he says, and if we're fighting the truth, then we aren't in the present moment. And if we aren't in the present moment, [00:03:00] then we can't heal our present suffering.
Henry: So, I find the wisdom of Pema Chodron to be really helpful with this concept.
She talks about this through the framework of addictions, but she's really using the word addictions in a very broad way. Noth just substance abuse, but really saying that we all have addictions and, you know, in one form or another, and generally they have a purpose.
That purpose being to keep us from seeing the truth, basically. So, we want to avoid pain either by running away or by dulling our senses, which is, quite literally what happens with some of the addictions, but also just with a lot of our other behaviors,
you know,by just going into mindless mode, or we can also do it by escaping into [00:04:00] pleasure, or into pain, or anything, but facing the truth. It's hard to hear that, frankly.
But when you hear it from Pema Chodron, she softens it because she is willing to go there, and, and acknowledges that she has had to deal with all the same stuff that the rest of us do. And it's really hard work. It just feels really authentic when you hear that from a teacher, you know.
It's not just something you, you need to work on, it's something I work on too. We all do. So, I think you're right when you say that this is hard stuff. It is very hard to say to a friend, for example, "Hey, look at what you're doing. This is not helping you. This is not healthy. What I'm seeing is that you keep stepping into the same hole again and again. [00:05:00] Are you avoiding what's really going on?" I mean, that's a very hard conversation to have, but boy, if you have a friend that's willing to go there with you, that is a really good friendship, really important person in your life.
You know, it might even be harder to have that conversation with ourselves. You know, because there's just so many layers that keep us from seeing it and it's so hard for us to go right into the pain, to face it really squarely. Because we've all developed a thousand strategies that we've honed over the years to avoid exactly that. So I don't know why, but I'm thinking of a a line from a poem by Rilke. I'm just going to paraphrase it as best I can. Something like this, "Winning does not tempt that man. Winning does not tempt [00:06:00] that woman. This is how he or she grows by being defeated decisively by constantly greater beings."So That's a hard, that's a hard couple of lines.
You know, that's, there's hard truth there somehow. But I think it says something to this conversation that, you know, it's as if we think we are winning, we're getting a short term win by, by finding something that's pleasurable by, you know, dodging the pain of what's in the moment, we think that we're winning, if we can get what we want in that moment, or if we can push away what we don't want. Or if we can just simply go about our lives pretty mindlessly for the, for a time. We think we have won by not having [00:07:00] to deal with it. But if what we're interested in is growing and having more emotional freedom or more joy in our lives, then that small win, even if it happens again and again, it's just not enough. So, we're not tempted by this. momentary reprieve that we get from doing the same things we have always done in order to not have to look at what's really happening.
Aimee: I've never heard that Rilke line. Growing by being defeated by constantly greater beings. Oh, what a challenge, right?
Henry: Yeah.
Aimee: That just
Henry: But courage, there's a lot of courage in
that. And,
Aimee: Yeah. Courage to fail, to get back up [00:08:00] again. And we can all do this and we can train for that. God, there's so much courage and compassion, and again, we're wired for it.
So folks who are in the Joy Lab program, you'll recognize one way to train this by using these steps. See what is, accept what is, choose wisely. We use that a lot in the program. I'm feeling those steps right now. See what is, accept what is, choose wisely. So Henry, can you walk us through these steps as a tool to help us practice facing these truths in a compassionate way and in a way that helps us grow.
Henry: Sure. Yeah. So I think anybody who has been through the, you know, the challenge of of addiction and who's, who's really dealt with it and faced it I think they're gonna, they would recognize, even though they use different terms or they might, maybe they're in a 12 step or other recovery program, but I think [00:09:00] they would recognize this as part of their process.
But, but this is a much broader model that we use widely through the Joy Lab program because to me, it really, it simplifies and clarifies how a mindful approach can be really accessible and really helpful to us in dealing with these very hard things. Also in dealing with very good and joyful things.
It's just a flip side of the same, the same thing. So again, these three levels of mindfulness, I guess I would call them, or three stages of a mindful practice are see what is, accept what is, and choose wisely. So I think a lot of people have the first one, already kind of embedded in their mind that this is, this is what mindfulness is about.
It's to, [00:10:00] to be able to be in the present moment, to be able to, to actually be there for what's happening. But I think it's a super helpful way to think about it, that what we're actually about with this, what we're trying to do with this greater presence or awareness, is to be able to see really clearly, honestly, the truth of what is happening. So let's just say, for example, that we have some pain that we've been holding on to maybe for a very long time. Let's just say it's the pain of abandonment. Very common one that might have started from some very early in life actual abandonment or it might have been just, you know, some later rupturing of a relationship or something.
But let's just say that's the, that's the fear. That's the kernel of pain that we have somehow not willing or able to face. Having a mindful practice means that, this, this ability [00:11:00] to see what is, is that when we notice that kernel of discomfort, that, that distress that comes up maybe from a conversation we're having with somebody or, or maybe you just simply were left out of plans with a group of your friends and, and you automatically start to feel kind of hurt and tender and there's this clenching up inside.
So the moment that you feel that, your automatic tendency might be to, fill your, your, your, your, time with something distracting to, to go to turn to food or some other pleasure, or maybe, just get extra busy. And that's your automatic tendency to, you want to avoid that pain, but to see what is means that you have the courage and the willingness to sit with it for a little bit.
It might [00:12:00] only be a few seconds that you can actually sit with that, or a few minutes, moments, but you, you endeavor to, to be able to observe this tenderness, this feeling that you have inside, and what is underneath it. You're able to just sit with it until that clarity, that understanding comes. Okay. So that's to see what it is. It's a very, I make it sound very simple, very kind of easy. It's not easy to do at all, obviously. It takes some practice, but it takes that willingness just to keep coming back to it, keep coming back to it. You know, maybe the first thousand times that this comes up, you, you've given into whatever your behavior is to distract yourself. But the thousand and one time, you sit with it long enough to be able to feel it.
Second [00:13:00] stage then is to accept what is. And this might be something we want to resist. We don't want to accept that in fact I've been carrying this pain with me for most of my life. I've never been willing to look at it.
You know, whatever it is, the tendency is to want to push it away. But we really only have leverage, we only have kind of reclaim our power to do something, if we accept what is. It's not a passive thing at all. It doesn't mean that you're giving in.It just means that you see and you acknowledge, oh yes, this is the truth of what is going on. I can see that now. I can feel that. I can live with that knowledge. And then thirdly, and I think really [00:14:00] importantly, is to choose wisely. And what this really means is that we don't stop at the level of insight, being able to see and understand. We don't stop at the level of accepting that, okay, this is, is happening in my life right now. We also do need to take action of some sort. It's important to do something in response to this. Now that action might be simply holding yourself with loving compassion in that moment and recognizing the tenderness of what you've been carrying all of these years. You might not do anything to fix it.
You might just take the action of showing compassion to yourself. But also it could be that, you know, that in that, with that openness and that acceptance, you realize that, wow, [00:15:00] this pain that I've been carrying has really kept me isolated and separate from other people. And I don't, I want to do something different about that.
Aimee: And so I want to, to begin to, create deeper, more meaningful connections with other people. But the thing is that it gives you a choice, right? It, it, it empowers you to just, that you get to decide what you do with your life, what you do with your mind and your heart, how you decide to act based upon this compassionate insight that you've had about yourself.We can give ourselves a choice,
Henry: Yeah.
Aimee (2): Isn't that freedom when you feel like there's no choice, that you turn those patterns into possibilities?I'm thinking of, I don't know why. It's making me think of that phrase, you know, you can't teach an old dog new tricks. It's [00:16:00] more, you know, an old dog doesn't want to get rid of their old tricks because those old tricks are, you know, can feel safe.
So we're learning new tricks. And it can be hard to let go rather than learn. Learning is the opportunity. I think that's easier. The letting go is tough. I'm thinking about, now I'm thinking about my dog, Baekan. He does not like to use his nose to do anything. Like he thinks his nose is this like regal thing that shouldn't touch anything besides a smell that he wants.
And then we got our other dog, Hazel, and Baekan is the elder, you know, he's 11. Hazel is a much more rambunctious four year old. She uses her nose to do everything. She opens doors. She like just uses her nose in a million ways. And I noticed, Baekan would, you know, look and like, oh, this is interesting.
She's doing things with her nose that, you know, are presenting opportunities. [00:17:00] So we started to work with him a little bit, cause we got a dog door to push the door open with his nose, which he was like, absolutely not. I'm not going to touch my nose to that dirty door. But we showed him that this gives him freedom to go inside and outside whenever he wants.
The moment he realized that, his nose now opens every door in the house. It was like, it made, it just clicked for me. This, he, you know, the nose was not, I'm not going there. It's not a trick I want. Once he learned that it gave him this freedom of opportunity, this choice. Yeah. Now he barges into the bathroom with his nose, like a bull just uses his nose to open up doors.
So, and he was 10 years old when he learned that. 70 in human years, right? So, he learned a new truth and it gave him a freedom of choice. We can all do that. So,
Henry: love it.
Aimee: See what is, accept what is, choose wisely. Let's put [00:18:00] that in our pocket, carry it around with us. A message to repeat daily, a reminder to take those courageous steps.
Even little ones, right? Even just little bumps with your nose to try something new. We can grow in ways that create more freedom and compassion and joy in our lives. That's awesome. So you brought up Rilke, uh, favorite around here. I'll close us with another familiar pal, Rumi. So here's some wisdom from Rumi to inspire us.
Thanks for joining us!: "Grief can be the garden of compassion. If you keep your heart open through everything, Your pain can become your greatest ally in your life's search for love and wisdom." Thank you for listening to the Joy Lab podcast. If you enjoy today's show, visit JoyLab.coach to learn more about the full Joy Lab program. Be sure to rate and review us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.
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