Welcome to Joy Lab!: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Joy Lab podcast, where we help you uncover and foster your most joyful self. Your hosts, Dr. Henry Emmons and Dr. Aimee Prasek, bring you the ideal mix of soulful and scientifically sound tools to spark your joy, even when it feels dark. When you're ready to experiment with more joy, combine this podcast with the full Joy Lab program over at JoyLab.coach
Henry: Hello, I'm Henry Emmons, and welcome back to Joy Lab.
Aimee: And I'm Aimee Prasek. So today we are
talking about our February element of savoring and attention or inattention. So I want to start off with a definition from savoring researchers, Bryant and Veroff. So if you listened last episode, you might know this definition, so you can say it along with me at home.
Here
it is. Savoring is the capacity to attend to. appreciate and [00:01:00] enhance the positive experiences in one's life, which sounds great. And I think this element, however, it goes even beyond that to, also support us in really gaining back control of our attention, and that's kind of what we're going to dig into more of today.
So savoring requires us to choose something we want to pay attention to, right?
To give it our attention because we think it'll give us some nourishment, that it'll support us. And that is really, really important because our attention is more than ever a commodity. Really, it's a scarce resource that is constantly being pulled from us. So it's probably no news to anybody here,
social media companies want our attention because it brings ad dollars, online gaming, streaming platforms, shopping sites, 24/7 news channels, etc. These aren't [00:02:00] all bad, certainly, but they are built to grab and hold our attention in such a way that it doesn't let up. And with our phones in our pockets and devices everywhere, this is a really big deal, right?
Every day we are pulled and pinged and coerced and shamed and scared into giving over our attention without even knowing it. And if we don't build up the skills of placing our attention where we want it, then we will get pulled into these places where we just give too much attention, too much of our time, too much of our resources.
And then after that, at best, we are often left depleted and exhausted. So that is my ominous beginning to the element of savoring,
Henry: Ha ha ha ha ha ha
Aimee: which I realize is, it's good. There's, there is a, there is a happy, sort of ending [00:03:00] to this story and I'm not trying to fear monger, uh, the point, but I just think this is really essential in our 24/7 media and consumer environment.
We have to be able to know who or what we're giving our attention to and how it impacts our wellbeing and then to make a choice and take action to gain control back if we're putting our attention in a place that's exhausting or harming us. So I want to quote good old philosopher Epictetus to drive at this point.
He said, this is prior to social media and all of the craziness, nothing has changed in thousands of
Henry: ha ha.
Aimee: but here's what, what he said, "Your life is too short and you have important things to do. Be discriminating about what images and ideas you permit into your mind. If you yourself don't choose what thoughts and images you expose yourself to, someone [00:04:00] else will, and their motives may not be the highest."
Henry: Wow.
Aimee: Yeah. So Henry, do you want to add something here or disagree with Epictetus?
Henry: I'm not going to disagree with Epictetus, that's for sure. I, uh, that's a really striking quotation and, and I love it. And I just couldn't agree more with you about this issue, Aimee, about attention. And I'm glad we're really tying that to savoring. I think attention might be the most precious resource
we have, personal resource, at least in this digital era, and I don't think we realize just how much of it we've lost. I mean, Epictetus was telling people 2, 000 years ago that you better choose what you put into your mind intentionally, or someone else might do it who has less [00:05:00] positive wishes for you or whatever.
But, you know, I don't think what you described earlier is nefarious. It's just, it's just destroying our ability to stay attentive. And we are allowing that to happen.
Aimee: Yeah.
Henry: I, I, it's just reminded me of a movie review that I read recently, this is, this is new for me to bring up a movie on the podcast.
Aimee: my area. Go on though. I'm curious.
Henry: It really, it really struck me, because I think this is what, exactly what it was. So, there's a movie called Perfect Days. I haven't seen it, so I'm just going by the review. The review is in the Atlantic, I think, but, um, it's by a filmmaker I've heard of, Wim Wenders, who's a German filmmaker. And the description of it [00:06:00] actually sounds a little boring, if I'm honest
but also very intriguing. So the story is about a custodian, a janitor in Tokyo, whose life sounds incredibly spare, you know, like he has no Cell phone. He's not on social media. He lives alone. He barely interacts with anybody in the course of his days, so you can kind of see where this this is going. But what the reviewer said is that this movie is enthralling because it's just so striking to see someone going through his days with what the reviewer calls unfractured attention.
And that phrase just really jumped out at me. I love it; unfractured attention. 'Cause that's a perfect description. I think [00:07:00] so most of us, myself included, our attention is so fractured that it's hard to sustain it, you know, for any length of time. So the, the movie apparently over time, it, it reveals what looks like a pretty dull and and spare existence that this
man has a really rich life that comes largely out of his being able to be fully present to the rhythm of his days, the simple rhythm. And it's, it's these simple things that he really takes pleasure in, something I just find so appealing right now. So his natural ability to savor his life happens in large part because his mind is so uncluttered.
At least that's, that's how I'm imagining it. So I think it's charming, a charming idea to lift up a, a simple character like that and, [00:08:00] presented as a, as a different option for how to live a life these days. And, and also maybe as an antidote to our own chaotic and very fractured lives. Sometimes I feel like my brain and our collective brains have been, have been hacked.
You know, it's like, like we let someone in. You know, like these, these email scams, you click on it, you let somebody in, and they gain control of our operating system. So I think this comes at a huge cost, and I'm not so sure, frankly, how easy it is to get it back. So let's move into this idea of savoring.
To give us a foothold, how do we reclaim our own more perfect days?
Aimee: Yeah. I'm thinking to fractured attention as you're talking about unfractured attention and fractured attention and like how that feels in my [00:09:00] body and mind that just that word fracture and I'm sure folks can relate, like, that feeling of trying to focus, but then breaking attention. Again, I get that abrupt sort of jarring experience constantly throughout the day.
And then I'm picturing a cast, like a tool to hold the break still, to help hold our attention where it'll serve us best. So, like, we're, we're trying to craft a cast here.
Let's, let's support our attention because we can get it back. I think it's hard, like you said, but we can, we can get it back. I actually saw a bumper sticker the other day that cracked me up.
It said, I'd rather be here now. I love that. Instead of wanting to be anywhere but here, how can we rather be here
Henry: mm.
Aimee: How can we give attention to what is good around us right now? So I think as we're getting into this, it can be helpful to highlight the differences between [00:10:00] mindfulness and savoring. So, a more typical mindfulness practice is usually where you try to quiet the mind and just observe, maybe noticing the breath or a sensation or something you're looking at.
Just observing, which is wonderful. But with savoring, there is an intention. So you're practicing mindfulness with the intention of savoring, of getting the most out of the experience.
Henry: Yeah, you have a kind of a purpose, a goal in doing it.
Aimee: Yes, which I think can be really helpful at times, for everyone or for certain folks who maybe find themselves distracted in other mindfulness or meditation practices. Like you said, it's a goal. So it sort of gives something specific for the brain to do and accomplish, not just,
not just observe, but also find the good stuff, like on a little scavenger hunt, and then keep [00:11:00] exploring it and amplifying it.
And so we leverage this with all of our elements actually at Joy Lab. Uh, these elements, I think of them in a lot of ways as intentions. They're the things that we put our focus on in a variety of mindful ways. So that they show up more. And so that focus also just really helps us in so many other capacities that improve, our wellbeing generally.
So if folks want more of the science of this, there is some great work with something called intentional systemic mindfulness. So if you want to geek out on that, this is from researchers, Dr. Shana Shapiro and Gary Schwartz. I will put one of their main papers in the show notes. Fascinating
stuff.
Henry: Well, I'm glad you made that distinction between savoring and mindfulness practice. I think, you know, ultimately the goal is probably similar, but they aren't exactly the [00:12:00] same, are they? And I think so many people who want a more mindful life frankly, find it hard to find the time or the discipline to practice and you know, in the more traditional way that we think of it. Or or I know a lot of people too who really try but it just doesn't seem to come naturally to them to sustain their focus or to let their mind calm down I kind of put myself in this camp, it's just I think it's really useful to kind of work through that, but a lot of people give up, I think, before they go very far.
So I get that, you know. So I want to just kind of share a recent example that may not exactly fall in line with what you're describing, but I don't know, to me, it's a good example. Feels like it does. So I wish I [00:13:00] could remember where I saw this or who the person was, but I, it's just not coming to me. I think I, I read it probably in one of the online news feeds, but but it was, uh, it was about somebody who had recently died.
And the other person had a little story in remembrance of them. You know, maybe it was that, that thing on NPR where they, they talk about, they have these little vignettes where someone is remembering another person. It's really sweet. It's a really, really nice little feature. So anyway, they were, they were talking about this person and it had to do with the person who was speaking that they feared that they weren't being a good enough parent to their very young children.
And then this older person that they were remembering said, just get down on the floor and play with them. They'll always remember [00:14:00] that. So, I thought that was a really cool idea. So, when I was with my own grandchildren recently, who were really young, um, mostly on the floor, I decided I was going to try it out.
I don't usually do this because after a little while, either one of my knees or hips or something is going to complain, and getting down is easy, sometimes getting up again,
Aimee: Right.
Henry: you know, not as much. But I went for it, and I'll tell you, I could not have enjoyed it more. And it felt like a decidedly different experience than usual.
I always enjoy, you know, like being with them and playing with them, but this just was better by far. So much so that I didn't even care about my knees or hips. And that good feeling that came from savoring this time with them, by really being in it, I guess, [00:15:00] more fully, it just stayed with me for a long time.
It was totally worth it. So, I think one of the beauties of savoring is that it gives us a way to reclaim some bit of our attention without actually taking any extra time or effort. I mean, really, it's just, you know, it's doing whatever you're doing. Hope, I mean, in this case, something that you expect to be enjoyable, but just, doing it fully, like your bumper sticker, you just want to be here right now.
It's so simple. It just requires us to pay attention to something we enjoy. And we'd want to do that anyway, right? It's something we're drawn to. So, as I'm thinking about this, that kind of is the definition of mindfulness that I learned 30 plus years ago from Jon Kabat Zinn. Mindfulness, he [00:16:00] just, he described it as paying attention.
on purpose, without judgment. So if you're savoring something, the only judgment you're making is positive, like, hey, this is really great. I am really enjoying this. Why wouldn't we want to do more of that?
Aimee: Yeah, I think you're like bringing it down to the essence, which is this is so practical, pragmatic. This is just something we can do all the time. I think oftentimes I get caught in this too, is this idea that my mindfulness or meditation practice needs to be formal and like, with candles or dim lighting and no distractions, but this is like in the field every opportunity.
There's so many moments that you can savor through the day. And I've just, I'm actually recalling now from your story, Henry, makes me think of the probably the most poignant memory I have of my grandparents [00:17:00] is when we would go to bed and my sister or myself would be in the bedroom with our grandma and then whoever was sleeping in the living room with our grandpa would then start the evening after it was bedtime,
by crawling around the house like wolves in the dark. I mean, this is, I'm sure my parents were just loving it when we came home after late nights. But so, and my grandpa would be doing this, right? So we'd be right, he'd be right alongside us on the floor in the dark, howling in the house for what seemed like hours and then usually the bedroom group would get out of their bed and do the same.
So it'd just be... I don't, I don't, there was no purpose. There was no point to any of this. It was fantastic, weird, and totally wonderful. And it is, again, one of the most poignant, wonderful memories I have of my grandparents, that simple.
Henry: I can see why you remember that.
Aimee: And all we did was [00:18:00] we, you know, we were savoring too, together. I think there's an aspect of that as well that you shared too.
This, this aspect of savoring with others and how rich that is as well as a shared practice.And I think I want to say one more thing about knees and hips, since you brought it up, Henry. So there is actually good evidence that practicing savoring decreases our pain, our perception of pain in the body, and that's really important, right?
When you're dealing with chronic pain or just some older, wiser body parts, and so recent, a recent study I want to share, real quick here, they had folks train four times with either a 20 minute savoring practice or a slow breathing practice. So just four sessions training through either slow breathing or savoring.
And these were individuals, the participants were individuals [00:19:00] who had diagnosed rheumatoid arthritis, so they know pain. And after those just four trainings, they came in for a final practice in an fMRI machine. So, the researchers were looking at what's happening in their brains during the practice, what areas are lighting up, and they found that folks in the savoring group had significantly increased blood flow in the ventromedial prefrontal cortex, which is important.
So the VMPFC, as it's sometimes called, is associated with things like decision making, social cognition, kind of like how we relate and interact with others in the world, also regulation of negative emotions. So when we're activating this area, when it's working, when it's getting exercise, that is a good thing.
And savoring does that. Howling in the dark, in your house activates your ventromedial prefrontal cortex in ways that support your knees and back when you need to stand up againand [00:20:00] actually to that note of pain, they also gave participants a thermal stimulus during this practice, which is their research term for
like a hot prod, like a hot poke.
Henry: A hot stick
Aimee: But interestingly when they gave him that little hot poke, the savoring group reported less pain than the slow breathing group, which I was actually surprised about. I think that's super interesting. Savoring was more powerful to reduce pain than slow breathing. So get on the ground, play with those kids the best you can, it can really actually help reduce pain, improve your mood, activate your VMPFC.
This is super helpful. So I hope you're feeling like savoring is worth your time, everybody, Because it actually kind of takes no time. We're already there. We can find something to savor. It is like self care plus so much more. And [00:21:00] as we close here, I'm going to, I want to, I want to savor one of my favorite quotes that I think emphasizes this.
I know I've read this quote before and I will keep reading it again and again as we savor more as a global community. I think it is spot on. This is from author E. B. White. Here's what he wrote. "Every morning I awake torn between a desire to save the world and an inclination to savor it. This makes it hard to plan the day.
But if we forget to savor the world, what possible reason do we have for saving it? In a way, the savoring must come first."
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