Welcome to Joy Lab!: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Joy Lab podcast, where we help you uncover and foster your most joyful self. Your hosts, Dr. Henry Emmons and Dr. Aimee Prasek, bring you the ideal mix of soulful and scientifically sound tools to spark your joy, even when it feels dark. When you're ready to experiment with more joy, combine this podcast with the full Joy Lab program over at JoyLab.coach
Henry: Hello, I am Henry Emmons and welcome to Joy Lab.
Aimee: And I am Aimee Prasek. So we are, as you maybe already know, talking about resilience this month. That is our element of joy here on the podcast and in the program. And we are gonna get a little bit more specific about two things today, a low resilience tank and minor depression. And this is gonna be kind of a theme this month actually.
Aimee: We'll get into some subtleties around what may be keeping [00:01:00] us stuck in low resilience or minor depression or anxiety, and we'll get some clear strategies on how to overcome these obstacles and boost our resilience. So today we wanna do that with those two related, but also very different concepts, resilience and minor depression.
Aimee: And so just a surface glance at these they both may feel like a sense of being exhausted, disconnected, overwhelmed, having brain fog, lack of motivation, running on fumes, irritated with the world. I think
Aimee: we could all, I know it's terrible. We could all just keep going. Um, but there's more here to get into.
Aimee: That'll help us. So let's, let's separate 'em a bit. Here's a quick definition of both. So, resilience is our ability to bounce back when we get knocked down to bend with stress rather than break to come back to our homeostasis, our state [00:02:00] of equanimity, natural balance that we talked about last month. So a low, uh, level of resilience is gonna be struggling with those. And minor depression, also called subclinical depression, or sub threshold, or sub syndromal depression is when we have depressive symptoms, but not enough of them, or not severe enough or not for long enough, to have a diagnosis of something like major depressive disorder. But with minor depression, there are still symptoms and they are not easy to be stuck in. Some of them include changes in appetite or weight, sleep problems, fatigue, lack of energy, motivation, feelings of worthlessness or guilt, difficulty concentrating
Aimee: or with decision making, feeling agitated or sluggish, and also thoughts of, of death or suicide. Now these may be less frequent or intense than in major depression, but I think it's important to know that these can [00:03:00] still be present in minor depression. And there are estimates that at least 20% of US adults are experiencing minor depression at any one time.
Aimee: I think it's more, uh, a low resilience tank, I'd say more adults are dealing with that than aren't. It's probably our current pandemic in the US. So Henry, do you wanna describe more about how it might feel to have a low resilience tank and how it might feel to have minor depression? Yeah.
Henry: Sure. But let, let me start by saying something about diagnosis. Just the practice of diagnosis, which frankly, I don't think we do a very good job of in this country in this time. We don't even do a particularly good job of understanding it, I don't think. So, just as an illustration, if you talked with a hundred people who recently were diagnosed with depression, and if you really talk [00:04:00] to them and you kind of dug into their story to understand it, I think you'd find that most of them don't have depression. Most of them have low resilience. They, they've lost their resilience typically because of too much stress or too much, too big of a loss. So the resilience tank is low. Questionnaires and screening tools for depression, the sort you might get at a primary
Henry: care visit while helpful, they're missing a huge element of this, which is what is really going on, what
Henry: is at the root of this? And without that understanding, we don't know the best way to approach it.
Henry: So these are blunt, blunt instruments,
Henry: so to speak. I also think you're right, Aimee, that this is a modern day epidemic. [00:05:00] Resilience, as I understand it is a natural trait that we all have to varying degrees, but no matter how big our tank is, it's not bottomless.
Aimee: Yeah.
Henry: Our reserves are constantly shifting. Which allows us to adapt to our wildly changing world.
Henry: But there's a limit to our adaptability. Our reserves can be drained and the world is, we're experiencing it right now is testing a lot of us in terms of resilience.
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Henry: So how do we know if this is a situational, temporary depletion of our resilience reserves or something that is a little deeper, like a subclinical depression. Truth is, it can be hard to say for sure, and they can feel so much the same [00:06:00] that if it goes on long enough, you know, resilience depletion can just basically turn into depression. In some ways, it's a matter of how long does this last? But, but here's how I try to sort this out. Typically, depression lasts longer and it doesn't lift as easily. So, for example, I recently went through a time when my res, my reserves were pretty well drained and my mood tanked. As soon as I got a break from what was stressing me, I just bounced back and felt like my usual self by the very next day.
Henry: That is not depression. Second, depression typically sucks the joy right out of your life, so no matter what you do, at best, it feels a little flat. Most of the time when [00:07:00] your resilience is low, you can still enjoy, like even the simple day-to-day things like a good meal or spending time with a friend or, or being with a young child, you know, you can still play and have fun. And that's usually not the case with depression. Even subclinical depression, there's a, a blunting of everything, kind of like a blanket over your, your experience. Third, depression is more closely tied with your physiology with your body. There are physical symptoms, so things, for example, like you mentioned, changes in appetite or energy, or for some people it's a physical discomfort, pain or headaches or stomach pains, and there also tends to be a stronger genetic connection. So looking at family history can, can really help to, to tease this out as a clinician, when I have my [00:08:00] psychiatry hat on, what I'm most interested in is what can we do about it? So, in my mind, it really helps then to understand the root causes. And in that sense, there might not be a really clean distinction between having a low resilience tank or subclinical depression, and it might not even matter all that much. If there are situational or lifestyle factors that might be playing into this, and we can do something about them, we should, no matter what label we give to it.
Aimee: Yeah, I love that. I think even in this conversation, it's a opportunity to kind of stretch out our understanding and definition of depression and kind of soften some of the stigma that I think gets attached to it. I think oftentimes we think, oh, it's, well, it's not bad enough, so there's nothing I really need to do.
Aimee: So maybe the, you know, more here is understanding that as we have [00:09:00] a, a broader understanding of are we zapped, is our resilience tank empty? Or you know, is it more on that, that minor depression side? And if distinguishing doesn't help you, but you're not feeling good, that's fine too. If you're an overthinker like me and you wanna like have a bit of analysis and then put a label on it, if that helps you,
Aimee: great. We also have a episode on rumination coming and that'll be then another thing that you might wanna, experience with me and Henry. But yes, if it helps you to... to get a little bit more specific and then to name it, great. But if you're not feeling well, that's kind of what you're saying, I think Henry, like there are things we can do before it hits, whatever the, whatever the diagnostic criteria might be with the person that you're visiting and how they perceive it, you have control here.
Aimee: So like you said, what can we do? Let's [00:10:00] focus on just one or a few steps to take that generally can help to restore your resilience or, and or help you lift your mood. So if you're feeling like your resilience tank is low, if that kind of resonated with you, Henry, do you wanna give an easy or a few easy quick steps that
Aimee: folks can take?
Henry: Sure. So I, I think of this in, in two very different ways. Like there's, there's two broad dynamics at play here. One of them is what's draining your tank, what's taking it out of you? And then the other is what fills your tank back up? What
Henry: brings you back to life? Understanding, thinking about both of those things is really helpful. Often the quickest way to bounce back is to try to put your finger on one thing that is depleting you, and then deal with that. The usual culprits we're all familiar with these, are things like work stress, [00:11:00] relationships,
Henry: some sort of imbalance in your lifestyle. Maybe you're not eating very well, not sleeping well, which is a huge one. Or maybe it isn't just one thing, but simply that you're doing too much. You are packing your life too full. Even if everything is good, it's just too much. So don't even worry about trying to find the most draining thing. Just identify one thing that's having a pretty big impact on you. Ideally look for something you can actually do something about. You know, that, that it, it's, it's within your potential realm of control. That's kind of the tricky part. You know what, what do I actually do about it? Really simply put, you only have about three choices. One, you do nothing. Just let it be [00:12:00] as it is. Probably not a good choice because you're already drained. Option two, you change it. Some things are easy, others not. So to start with, choose an easy one. For example, all of us can eat better, or if we can decide, there's just one commitment I made this week that I can let go of and clear a little time from my busy schedule.
Henry: You know, even if it's something fun might be better for you at that moment to just stay home and rest.
Henry: So just find one thing. It's, it's addition by subtraction.
Aimee: Oh, love that.
Henry: I do too. I should. Listen to myself right now.
Aimee: That's why we're here. We're all working together. Let's add by subtracting. Yes. Good.
Henry: Our third choice is to accept whatever it is.
Henry: To allow it to be there, [00:13:00] which doesn't mean we don't do anything about it, but simply that we stop resisting it. That's probably a good topic for another episode, but a really quick summary is to simply give up on wanting things to be any different than they actually are.
Aimee: Hmm. Yeah, we do a lot of that work here.And those of you in the program, the Joy Lab program, identifying that one thing, you might find that, if you've done your experiment too, you might find an obstacle in your Resilience Type that'll help you focus on like, "Hmm, what's that one thing it might be in there?"
Aimee: So if you haven't joined us in the Joy Lab program, do join us as we dive into these experiments a little bit more, we get into the meat of this. Uh, so those are great strategies, Henry. Thank you. And I'll speak to minor depression for a moment. First, I just wanna say, if, you know, again, I think [00:14:00] we've, we've got this sort of, as you said, it's this strict and blunt diagnostic criteria for depression. And so, you know, it's rigid and it's, it, it, it doesn't fit a lot of us and we're not saying that, that, we should be diagnosing more depression. That's not the the message here. But it is an invitation to seek out support even if you don't think you are severe enough, or you've hit a threshold that looks as bad as somebody that you know, who's clinically depressed or something.
Aimee: So, the first invitation that it, if you're not feeling well, seek out support. gp, a therapist, minor depression does not mean you're weak. It does not mean you're doing something wrong, nor does major depressive disorder. It does not mean that you're broken. It is common. It does mean that you need some support, that your system needs some care.
Aimee: And so these are little flashing lights to say like, "Hey, [00:15:00] I'm here. Take care of me." That's your system asking you for some love.And then, you know, something that you can do right now, I think that is really helpful if you resonate here, is to do something, just one thing that is tactile, that is not related to a device and that you enjoy or that you maybe used to enjoy doing.
Aimee: So this is sometimes called behavioral activation. We're choosing to do something, a behavior, because it will activate what we want. In this case, it will activate some positive emotions. So it might be drawing, reading, walking outside, whatever, and give all of your senses to it. That's kind of this tactile sensory piece of this.
Aimee: Something hands-on that you enjoy and that you can really give your attention to will more effectively work to kind of rewire your brain toward these positive experiences. Because the [00:16:00] thing with minor depression and major depressive disorder, as you said, Henry, is that we often have bluntedexperiences.
Aimee: We have blunted positive emotions. Really, we do not respond as efficiently to positive stimuli compared to someone who is not experiencing depression. Our ears don't perk up as much. Our eyes don't see it. We don't smell it or taste it as much. We really are dulled to the good. And that kind of sounds abstract even when I'm saying it.
Aimee: But this is very literal. We've talked about this on the pod before, like how our field of vision is limited amidst depression, there's a muscle or something called the postauricular reflex. I think it is behind the ear that can be measured and it's magnitude if it's a reduced magnitude that's associated with depression. Like so maybe some millions of years ago when our ears perked up to positive stimuli.
Aimee: If our ears look differently, like [00:17:00] when in depressive states, we don't perk up as much. So I think that's wild and evidence though, that we can, physically even, if we're not feeling it, make some changes, we can engage in those behaviors, those activities that literally reawaken our senses, that expand our vision, that perk up our ears more, and then we can then expand our awareness and experience of what's good.
Aimee: So. Our system will listen, it'll, it'll work when we continue to practice it like any muscle does with practice. And I wanna say too, even if you're not digging it as at first, if it feels clunky, you feel uncoordinated with it, give it practice and let your system catch up. We'll get into this more in the next several episodes.
Aimee: You know how literally these practices and skills work to rewire our body and brain so that we can feel better. That we can do that. We have so much power to create that meaningful change. [00:18:00] So Henry, do you have anything more you wanna add or that perked your ears up?
Henry: Well, I'll tell you, I love the, the ear perking muscle.
Aimee: I forgot about that. That postauricular. Isn't that just, we are amazing humans.
Henry: Well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go right to where the money is
Henry: 'cause there are two things that are proven again and again to lift a low mood, whether it's from depression or whether it's loss of resilience that's causing it. The first is moving your body. Which does tie in with what you just said, Aimee, about a tactile experience and it really, really works. So it can be anything from an easy stroll outside to an intense interval training if you're into. It actually doesn't much matter, movement and exercise are almost guaranteed to give you a lift at least temporarily.
Aimee: Yeah.
Henry: The second thing that's proven [00:19:00] again and again as a powerful mood lifter is to have a positive social encounter. And again, it doesn't
Henry: even matter that much what you do. It can be short or long. It can be with a stranger in the grocery store line, or it can be a lifelong friend. As long as you perceive it as a positive interaction, it is going to boost your mood Better yet, put the two of them together. Go for a walk and talk with a good friend or with a dog.
Aimee: Yes. You know what I'm gonna do today?
Henry: What
Aimee: I'm, I'm gonna do this, everybody. Let's all do this. Find a dog if you don't have a dog. I've got two. We've got an extra one here right now. Got three.
Henry: You can loan one,
Aimee: Yeah, if anybody, I'm gonna take a walk and with them and I'm gonna watch, I, I don't know dog anatomy, but I guess I would guess their postauricular reflexes has
Aimee: to do with when [00:20:00] their ears perk up, I'm gonna just like, pay attention to all of the things that their little ears perk up to.
Aimee: You know, just as a, like, sensory awakening, follow their ears, like dogs follow their noses. Just kind of like, I wanna explore the world with them today. That will get my mood. It will work. Everybody else try that walk, walk with your dog and follow their ears and their noses and see what happens.
Aimee: Love
Henry: Love it. Yep.
Aimee: Uh, well I hope this has been helpful, um, with sincerity too. I mean, like we just talked about kind of a silly thing, but I'm gonna do it and like whatever gets your creative juices flowing as well, whatever, whatever feels good to you to perk your system up today. Uh, to close our time today, I want to share some wisdom from Mary Oliver.
Aimee: These are the last few lines of her poem, wild Geese. I think we'll probably just quote Mary Oliver throughout our entire resilience um, episodes this month [00:21:00] and probably into hope. God, her connection with nature too. So,
Aimee: so good here. It's "Whoever you are, no matter how lonely. The world offers itself to your imagination.
Aimee: Calls to you like the wild geese, harsh and exciting, over and over, announcing your place in the family of things."
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